Vice President JD Vance shrugged off a false and offensive slur about former First Lady Michelle Obama during a podcast conversation with podcaster Joe Rogan that aired Wednesday, dismissing the backlash as wildly overblown and, at one point, laughing about it on air. The remark, aimed at the former first lady, was made last month by UFC fighter Josh Hokit during his victory speech at a cage-fighting event on the White House South Lawn.
The exchange came during an episode of “The Joe Rogan Experience” recorded on Tuesday. The discussion produced an unusual dynamic: Rogan, not Vance, argued the controversy was significant, while the vice president seemed puzzled that anyone took issue with the remark.
Rogan Presses the Vice President
Vance, attending his first live UFC event on June 15, told Rogan he had been marveling at the submission holds inside the cage. When Rogan asked whether Vance found the armbars or Hokit’s insult more shocking, the vice president didn’t hesitate. He said the armbar, drawing laughter from both men, then added that in politics people say crazy things all the time.
Josh Hokit, 28, had shouted “Michelle Obama is a man” into Rogan’s microphone during a postmatch interview in the ring. Rogan, who served as emcee for UFC Freedom 250, responded at the time only by announcing the fighter’s name and moving on. President Donald Trump, who was seated cageside, was seen smiling briefly when the comment was made, and Hokit later placed his chain around Trump’s neck.
On the podcast, Rogan repeatedly pushed back against Vance’s nonchalance, noting the setting mattered. He argued the fighter has cultivated a pro-wrestling-style bad-guy persona to grab attention, but he still said the slur was, in his words, “not the best thing to say” at the White House.
Vance conceded the point with a single word — “fair” — before immediately insisting the reaction remained “totally disproportionate.” He recalled that his communications staff had been most worried he would be grilled about the incident during an appearance on “The View” to promote a book. Vance said he was baffled that a fighter’s heated post-bout remark had escalated into a national story.
A Familiar Argument About Outrage
Vance said repeatedly that society is too quick to overreact to controversial remarks. According to the vice president, the appropriate response is simply to call something offensive and move forward, and he expressed surprise at those who “lose their minds” over remarks. He works, he noted, in a business where people make life-and-death decisions.
To make his case, the vice president cited Tony Hinchcliffe, who delivered the opening act at a Trump rally in Madison Square Garden during October 2024. Hinchcliffe’s routine included numerous racial stereotypes and a joke describing Puerto Rico as a “floating pile of garbage.” At the time, even many Trump allies criticized the joke. Vance argued that people had similarly overreacted then, and he said an entire industry built around outrage — particularly outrage aimed at humor — is hurting the country.
Even Rogan Kept His Distance
Notably, neither man condemned Hokit’s remark outright. But Rogan has repeatedly said he understands why the slur drew so much attention, pointing to the fact that it was delivered on the White House lawn rather than at a typical venue. In an earlier episode, he said organizers probably shouldn’t have booked the fighter for that stage, adding that the same line at T-Mobile Arena in Vegas or Madison Square Garden would have been outrageous but not a major story. He also called the White House cage fight itself odd and said he didn’t like the idea of a world championship bout in a non-controlled environment.
Hokit, for his part, has doubled down and said he will never backtrack from what he says. He later told podcaster Ariel Helwani that he thought he was paying the former first lady a compliment — suggesting he meant she works hard and handles adversity like a man when times get tough — and framed the moment as a demonstration of American free speech. Dana White, UFC CEO and President, has described the comment as nasty and false, calling the underlying claim nonsense.
The primetime fight was held on Trump’s 80th birthday and was part of the administration’s broader celebrations marking America’s 250th birthday. The White House has not condemned Hokit’s remarks. The remark sparked backlash from critics across the political spectrum, including Trump backers who had supported the decision to host the UFC event at the White House, making Vance’s decision to laugh it off — and his repeated insistence that he remains “still shocked” people cared — a fresh flashpoint in an already contentious episode.